came of age during mandela's remarkable rise, she's covered civil rights throughout her career. we're pleased to have both of you. so today in terms of the mandela that you know, what resinated most in terms of what president obama said? >> to me, i think the strongest part of the message is that i heard today is that mandela really taught people how to have hope in the face of adversity, in the face of not really hav g having -- seeing any signals of hope around you, continuing to believe you can craft social change. >> and to figure out a way to make your enemy your friend. there's power in that. what did you think of the president's speech? >> i thought it was an excellent speech. and there were a couple of points he said have gone underemphasized this week. one was that mandela wasn't a saint, he was a politician. a brilliant politician. and south africa today is built on compromises that were not all that popular at the time. the other thing was he did a kind of shout out to -- or call out to a lot of the people who are wrapping themselves in the mantle of mandela that don'